"Steven Lang" (StevenLang)
01/30/2015 at 14:31 • Filed to: None | 65 | 100 |
As a car dealer, auto auctioneer, and former owner of an auto auction, I have seen thousands of deals come and go through the auction block.
Near-new Ferarris. Old beater trucks and economy cars that were as rough as a wore out mop. Even tractors, fire trucks, and zambonis.
I always try to get the popular loaded cars and trucks since most folks these days tend to "Buy with their eyes.". They usually fall in love with the aesthetics and fantasy of ownership. Instead of the reality behind all that sheetmetal and shine.
That's when it comes to my buying cars for close friends and family, those that are worth buying cheap and keeping for the long haul, I almost always buy em' near naked .
Mind you, I'm not talking about the cars with roll down windows, no a/c (in Georgia? Oh the humanity?!), dashboard knobs that could pass as a dog's rubber chew toy, or door handles that cost all of thirteen cents to produce in China.
I'm talking about the next step up. What we call in our business a "1990s loaded ride".
One that used to be promoted over the airwaves as a car with...
A/C!!! Power windows!!!! Power Door Locks!!! Cruise!!! Premium Sound System!!! And Alloy Wheels!!! All For The Low Low Price Of $13,595!!!
You know. The car with enough options to make it contemporary, but not enough to make it priced to the hilt.
These are the ones that routinely become the cars that consumers may shop for after they get their insulin induced sticker shock of seeing an MSRP priced somewhere in between Neptune and Pluto.
What's different these days versus the pre-Y2K era? The money side of buying cars. Today we have seven year loans and easy credit. Even a loaded car that cost $7000 more new than it's lower spec twin can be financed for !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! if the rate is low enough.
!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!
Thanks to this era of automotive quantitative easing, two things have happened. First, automakers are pushing up the options and MSRPs to record levels these days. And second, those souls with truly bad credit are still trying to scarf up used cars that are loaded to the hilt because the payment is still low on a per month basis. Never mind those extra two to three years of payments.
The other cars — the lower spec cars no one wants — get stuck in a world we dealers call "wholesale heaven," a God forsaken purgatory where millions of cars that are in low demand get shucked through auctions and other wholesale channels in search of an inexperienced schlub. Who doesn't understand that the funny money that is finance fodder now dominates the car business.
(Picture Courtesy of !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! )
This lower-spec car that is usually parked for months on end becomes the industry's 'Almost' car. The car that everyone pretends that they will supposedly settle for when they do the numbers. But then they go a little crazy, get more comfortable with the idea of long-term consumer debt, and buy their automotive dream from dealers who are all too used to selling it.
In reality, you can already buy those dreamy features of a loaded car for about twenty cents on the optioned out dollar in the used car market if you're patient. Let me give you a real life example.
My brother-in-law, Tom, wanted to get a Ford Escape back in 2005 when Hurricane Katrina hit the southeast. Prices were spiking at the auctions due to the near-future insurance payouts, and the exodus of New Orleans refugees who were moving to Atlanta and other southern cities.
For $7000, I ended up buying him a four year old Escape with a five-speed that was "1990s loaded". The enthusiast in him loved the stickshift, and the inner frugalist loved the 25 to 27 mpg the Escape got on the highway.
It had the power features, ABS/Cruise, and the nicer door handles, but it had no alloy wheels. This price was about $4000 less than what the loaded up Escapes were going for at that time.
From there, Tom became patient. He waited until he found a set of leather seats on Craigslist for the Escape . Sometimes you can find folks parting out their cars. Other times, you can contact junkyards and haggle your way into a $300 deal for a set.
He undid the four bolts for each front seat. Six for the rear, and had himself a perfectly nice leather set.
Alloy wheels? Same deal. He waited, then bought.
Radio and better quality speakers? Easily upgradable. He was handy. But plenty of other places can do it for far less than that stiff optioned out premium priced versions you find on a late model car.
As time went on he didn't stay cheap. He bought solid sets of tires, brake pads and struts that were the best in the business, and it became his . A true keeper that had been bought with just over 100k on the odometer, and is still going strong and looking great with what is now over 260k miles.
He saved his money first, and invested in his vehicle later. That investment paid dividends in his bank account, and his life's experiences as an auto enthusiast.
So do yourself a favor. Buy the less popular, lower-spec car that has been well kept. And then build it your way.
When it comes to loving what you drive, it's better to build your dream than to debt it out to the dealer.
(Steve Lang writes for Yahoo! Autos, and has been a frequent contributor to a variety of publications over the years. If you get bored today, which shouldn't take much, feel free to Google 'Steven Lang and cars' or click !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . You'll have more stories about auctions, and the buying and selling of cars, than you could shake a stick at!)
For Sweden
> Steven Lang
01/30/2015 at 14:43 | 14 |
Where does a retail consumer find these cars?
Steven Lang
> For Sweden
01/30/2015 at 14:47 | 6 |
They are usually unsold for longer periods of time at the dealerships and from private owners.
The auctions is where many of them end up until they are again put on the front line. Some of them can spend a large part of their lives on this merry-go-round.
Steve is equipped with Electronic Fool Injection
> Steven Lang
01/30/2015 at 15:07 | 2 |
Which is why you can find five-year-old base-model, manual transmission Elantras with under 10k miles all over the place?
Pixel
> Steven Lang
01/30/2015 at 15:22 | 17 |
I did something somewhat similar. Bought a 2004 Scion xB in 2007 for ~$6500. Got that price because it was high-ish miles for the time(92K) had a minor scrape down the side and smelled of cigars.
Pulled the headliner and scrubbed it and the interior & polished out the worst of the scrape and it looked and smelled good.
Since then I have been steadily upgrading it with such things as 40sq ft of sound deadener, solid shifter bushings & extended lever, better interior lighting, upgraded struts/shocks, rear sway bar, chassis H brace, rear hub spacers, Redline synthetic in the trans for smoother shifting, removed the low-hanging bumper lips and installed jetta lips for better clearance, and on and on.
It now has ~214K, still runs & drives great and I still enjoy using it every day.
MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s
> Steven Lang
01/30/2015 at 15:22 | 5 |
This is what i tell my friends when they ask why i bought the truck i did. It may not have power anything and the sound system sucks, but it has the drivetrain i wanted with a clean body, which is hard to come by in the midwest. the rest of the things i can change and make it into the truck i really wanted, and i can do it for pennies on the dollar by going to junk yards and browsing craigslist.
Steve is equipped with Electronic Fool Injection
> Steven Lang
01/30/2015 at 15:23 | 3 |
That's exactly what my wife and I are doing with the Kia.
Ugly wheel covers? 5x114.3 with 45 offset and 67mm hub bore means that it's getting takeoff 18s from a Mustang - 235/45-18s are the same size as the Exclaim from 13.
No cruise? No problem.
Needs keyless entry, but that's only a few hundred bucks.
Leather and a sunroof are coming from the place I work.
We'll have it for 150-200k miles so it may as well be something we like.
Steven Lang
> Steve is equipped with Electronic Fool Injection
01/30/2015 at 15:25 | 4 |
That's the way to do it! Buy it cheap and build it up!
Shoop
> Pixel
01/30/2015 at 16:01 | 4 |
That grill is goddamn sweet
Pixel
> Shoop
01/30/2015 at 16:13 | 1 |
Thanks, this guy sells them on ebay . It isn't one of the cheap chinese ones. I painted it the copper but he can powder coat them in various colors.
Whitesmoke
> Steven Lang
01/31/2015 at 11:32 | 1 |
I heartily concur with "near base". My '13 Silverado is an LS, which is one step up from a WT.
BTW, what part of Georgia? I live near Dahlonega.
MTY19855
> For Sweden
01/31/2015 at 16:28 | 7 |
By avoiding car dealerships and putting in long hours browsing Craigslist.
jalop1991
> Steven Lang
01/31/2015 at 16:28 | 8 |
Agreed 100%.
I have a stripper Prius, 2007, a fleet car. Civilians could not get this model from the dealers, period. No smart key, and no audio jack in to the stereo. I've had it since new, first as a company car and a few years later as my own car when I bought it out.
The first thing I did was install a system for audio input to the stereo, for my XM radio. The next thing I did was drive it. And drive it. And drive it.
150K miles later, I'm still driving it. And it's very cheap to own. And it has power windows and climate control and power locks. It's missing many things that Prius owners like to crow about, but I don't miss a one of those features.
Were I to sell it today, I would get almost as much as any other similar-miles Prius on the market.
It was a $22K car back then. Out of pocket to get the car in my name as a 4 year old car, after paying various company car costs and then buying it out, I had $14K of my own money in it.
I've given thought to getting a new car, but the proof is in the pudding: I haven't pulled the trigger. I don't need more than what that car is, no matter how much I might enjoy some other things. In the end, given what such a new car would cost, those things are meaningless.
Arizona Lefty
> For Sweden
01/31/2015 at 16:33 | 3 |
Everywhere, former rentals meet this spec
derhoggz
> jalop1991
01/31/2015 at 16:34 | 10 |
Admitting to driving a Prius on Jalopnik!? Egads
Steven Lang
> jalop1991
01/31/2015 at 16:37 | 2 |
Hold that trigger. Nothing better is out there on a depreciating dollar per mile basis.
syaieya
> Steven Lang
01/31/2015 at 16:41 | 2 |
While I love the thought of making a car my own, there are certain things I just don't like messing with.
Paint and bodywork are always daunting to me, as is tracking down and waiting for that last little piece.
Being said, that's most likely what it's going to take for me to get near anything of my dream cars without totally crushing the bank.
My X-type is too a real Jaguar
> Steven Lang
01/31/2015 at 16:44 | 4 |
I just bought a BMW 535i that was one of these cars, no rearview camera, no satellite radio, manual transmission, just 28K miles. It had been sitting on the dealer lot since last September when it was bought at Auction. If I believe the Used car manager I got it for $2500 less than they paid at auction for it.
lone_liberal
> Steven Lang
01/31/2015 at 16:46 | 3 |
When I was in the market for something to replace the minivan that my then-new wife hated I found that Mercury Mariners were actually cheaper than lower equipped Escapes. I have no idea of that was just a blip in the market or it's an on going thing caused by people not knowing what a "Mercury" is.
OneMoreTimeAgainandAgain
> Steven Lang
01/31/2015 at 16:48 | 0 |
I needed a truck for around the house stuff, and occasional motorcycle hauling.
I found a totally clean (one minor door ding) '08 F150, 200 hp V6, manual box, and not much else. It has manual windows and locks, which I can live with.
55k miles for less than $8,000, from a guy on Craigslist. The worst thing about the truck was the tires, which I got almost two years out of . I recently replaced two of them, because one broke a belt.
I get 20 on the highway (at California speeds), and 200 hp is plenty of power for doing anything but racing or hauling huge trailers.
People do not want low-option cars, and give them away.
E39FTW
> Steven Lang
01/31/2015 at 16:48 | 8 |
This advice can also apply to new vehicles. in early 2010 I bought a "brand new" 2007 Chevy Colorado. It had been sent to a dealership in Denver and had no options at all on it. Being a two wheel drive vehicle with hand crank windows, vinyl flooring, and no jump seats in the back it sat on the dealers lot for 2.5 years. During that time the dealership had tried to spruce it up a bit. They attempted each of the following:
- Window Tint
- Bed Liner
- Lowering Kit
- 18" rims from a ZQ8 equipped Colorado
All of those things failed. They put it out on eBay for $13,500 and it still didn't sell. I called them immediately after the auction and offered them $12,500. They bit. Since the vehicle had never been registered I was able to use my "GM Bucks" towards the purchase so I drove off in a vehicle that had a window sticker north of $21k for about $9,500.
I then set about to make it "my own".
- Rear jump seats - $75 from a the wrecking yard
- New stereo and speakers - $300 (I splurged)
- Carpet kit - $75
- New front seats (the ones that came with he truck were horrible) - $250 from a wrecking yard
Overall not too bad. The thing I enjoyed the most was that even though it was a stripped down version it still had A/C, Cruise Control, Tilt Wheel, ABS, TPMS. They don't make stripped down versions like they used to.
Sethism
> Steven Lang
01/31/2015 at 16:48 | 2 |
I see what you're saying here, and agree that it's good advice for people who either don't care what they drive, or are on a strict budget. That said, I've bought well-optioned cars at very similar money to stripper models, and wouldn't hesitate to pay more for a car with the right spec, regardless of how cheap the fleet models are.
Lots of cars require an ECU upgrade for higher trim models, and that'll set you back enough to upgrade that you could have just bought the high-line model in the first place.
Julius Peppers
> Steven Lang
01/31/2015 at 16:53 | 0 |
Is there a site to "meet a friend" who can take you to an auction? If there's not, someone can take my idea. I don't trust craigslist enough.
Frenchlicker
> Steve is equipped with Electronic Fool Injection
01/31/2015 at 17:02 | 1 |
Damn, I need to work at a place where I can get a sunroof done. I have been imagining a full canvas roof on the Taurus, kind of like the old VW buses.
LeadfootYT
> Pixel
01/31/2015 at 17:04 | 3 |
Ooh! I've been trying to find someone who retrofitted sound deadening into their car! I want to do that with my old 1986 635CSi this spring, but I have no idea where to find materials or how/where to adhere it so it won't self-immolate. Any DIYs or forums or anything that you used?
RelentlessSlacker
> Steven Lang
01/31/2015 at 17:05 | 0 |
I went from a 2002 VW GTI with every option to a 2004 VW GTI with no options. Best car move I ever made. Same car, same engine, but 300 lbs. less weight livens up the driving experience, it honestly has all the comforts I care about anyway, and instead of paying $23k for the first one new, I paid $18k for the second one. 11 years later I still own it and still love it.
Turbonium2K
> Steven Lang
01/31/2015 at 17:09 | 0 |
I'm thinking about doing this with a New Beetle whenever I actually get the cash to get one. Considering how rare the Turbo S is, I could nab a lesser 150hp 1.8T for around $2,500 and buy all the important bits as time goes on. Toss on a set of replica 35thAE GTI rims, blue and white Euro badges, a mild OEM style lowering (Springs from a Jetta GLI will give it a nice "rake" stance), paint the roof black, etc...
Big Russ
> Steven Lang
01/31/2015 at 17:10 | 0 |
Thats pretty much was Toyota did with the Scion brand at first... you had steel wheels, power windows, 5 speed or auto, decent radio, decent speakers, and a grab bag of options for the car from the jump... 2004 paying 16k for a decent means of transportation that was easy to upgrade to your liking. Hell I still have my 2005 xB (not much longer though) and since its purchase in 2007 at a reasonable price of 12k I have invested probably about 3500 in upgrading it. Suspension, wheels, paint, interior, mild performance upgrades... BUT every vehicle I have purchased between then and now has been 1 step up from the bare bones model. Not just because the price was good, but because I don't care if it has flashy alloy wheels or a bad ass stereo, whale penis leather seats or a 500000hp quad turbo V16 that makes Green Peace piss themselves at the mention of it. Simple upgrades in the right places can make the vehicle truly yours.
ThrowsLikeAGirl
> LeadfootYT
01/31/2015 at 17:20 | 11 |
Honestly? Peel-n-Seal works wonders. Doesn't have the asphalt smell that everyone thinks it does, and tons cheaper than dyno/fatmat. Besides, you can double the layers and still come out waaaay less.
Peel-N-Seal:
vs Dyno/FatMat
Chaparral2F
> Steven Lang
01/31/2015 at 17:21 | 2 |
My son works for an automotive dealer group and goes to dealers within the group to auction off vehicles that are sitting for more than 60 days. Some pretty nice cars for a very decent price. With a little TLC and a few upgrades, they would make nice vehicles to own and all for a rock bottom price. Dealers do not want these types of cars languishing on lots for months and months.
spookiness
> Steven Lang
01/31/2015 at 17:31 | 0 |
Its a good strategy for any used car, especially if you are handy and have access to a pik-a-part junkyard. I kept a 2000 Protege ES going for far longer than I anticipated, just by updating a few cosmetic and convenience things to make it tolerable. Replaced weather worn exterior trim on windows. Swapped out better sunvisors and mirrors from a 2003. Added autodim/compass/Homelink mirror from a Mazda6. Swapped in variable speed wiper switch from an Escape. 4 new kicker speakers, and an excellent JVC head unit for about $120 that gave me USB, Aux-in, and Bluetooth audio/phone capability. Added 2 additional 12v sockets to give me power to run my phone/nav, and heat my coffee cup, and added some additional footwell, ignition, and cabin lighting pillaged from junkyard cars, and a nicer shift knob from a Mazda3. Dressed up a grad school car and kept it going (and saving money) for another 2 yrs.
longdx
> Pixel
01/31/2015 at 17:41 | 1 |
I am going to echo "Shoopda...." statements, that grill is awesome. I always liked the 1st gen xBs and almost everyone I know that owns one loved them. I also want to mention that I dig the green steelies with the tan center caps. Pretty cool way to customize the car..
Kylemaro
> LeadfootYT
01/31/2015 at 17:44 | 1 |
google sound deadener. pull carpet seats and headliner and apply, go for the adhesive backed foil stuff. good stuff. can be pricey though
Texican
> For Sweden
01/31/2015 at 17:45 | 7 |
I found mine at the dealer. A 2009 Fusion with hubcaps, cloth seats and a stick. A few months later I found a set of fetching leather seats out of a wrecked Mercury, and now that the tires are showing wear I'll be shopping for a set of alloys. Incidentally, the Merc seats are a two-tone that look far more upmarket than anything Ford would have installed anyway.
The dealer even made a screaming deal on it because nobody wanted the low-spec stick shift 'stripper.' Mind you this basic betty had power everything, cruise, aux-in port, and rear sensors. With shiny paint and no dated infortainment system, it even comes off as new-ish despite being two generations out of date.
Kylemaro
> Steven Lang
01/31/2015 at 17:51 | 4 |
my 99 silverado z71 was nearly a $40k dollar truck in 1998. i paid 2500. and for that i got the fancy mirror with the temp and compass in it. power seats, locks, mirrors, steering, heated leather seats, 4 wheel drive, the bose stereo option with the cd player and disc changer. and a more than easily hoonable (320+hp 5.3l ls engine, pretty good auto trans, and a 3.73 rear axle gear) not to mention it will never need things like exhaust or brake lines because the factory exhaust is a 3" stainless setup and a previous owner used stainless line for all the brake and fuel lines on the truck. and i love this truck. it sounds great handles anything and is quite honestly in no way lesser than it was when new now some 16 years and 279k miles later
POSFordRanger
> Steven Lang
01/31/2015 at 17:52 | 0 |
I did this two weeks ago when I bought a brand new base model Cruze. This no options 2014 had been on the lot for 6 months and I got it for almost $4000 below msrp. The only things that really bothered me about it were the steel wheels and the lack of cruise control. I negotiated into a deal for them to add cruise control and and I bought some oem alloy wheels for $200 on my local classified site. The only two things I cared about from the car that was $6000 more, I added for $400.
jalop1991
> derhoggz
01/31/2015 at 17:53 | 7 |
And it's very possible to be a Jalop about the Prius. Just get to know the car inside out and use all the technology properly, like any good Jalop, and don't get caught requiring the dealer for repairs and know the cost and impact of every repair, and....
I daresay, few here know the Prius technology inside out. How can you make fun of something you know nothing about? No doubt the stereotypical California Prius driver doesn't know anything about base Mustangs, or Chevy SS, etc, but they don't hesitate to make fun of those—and jalops call them out for that behavior every time. It's no different with the Prius.
Bad72AMX
> Steven Lang
01/31/2015 at 17:53 | 2 |
Good article, but I struggle to understand how anyone could possibly enjoy a manual Escape. I literally cant reach the shifter whiteout leaning and stretching. Perhaps he is a midget with gorilla arms?
jalop1991
> Steven Lang
01/31/2015 at 17:54 | 1 |
exactly.
What we need is the jalop equivalent of Alcoholics Anonymous, and meeting friends to call when we get too close to pulling that trigger.
Birddog
> Steven Lang
01/31/2015 at 17:56 | 1 |
"the fantasy of ownership."
There's a writer that pushes that "fantasy" pretty hard on Jalopnik. The comparisons sometimes defy logic.
This makes sense and is less irritating.
44444444444
> Steven Lang
01/31/2015 at 18:02 | 5 |
I usually just buy an old Volvo that needs a head gasket or ETM off Craigslist for $900 and drive it for 75k miles and repeat.
The World of Vee
> Steven Lang
01/31/2015 at 18:04 | 3 |
im all for building my toys. But when it comes to my DD I'd honestly rather lease or (as with my elr now) finance something ultra comfy and cozy and never think about it.
But I scour cl forprojects all the time
derhoggz
> jalop1991
01/31/2015 at 18:06 | 1 |
Hey man, you do you.
DipodomysDeserti
> Steven Lang
01/31/2015 at 18:07 | 5 |
Of the several cars I own, one is a "90's loaded" Subaru Loyale. It's the only older car I own where everything works. 90's loaded is the best type of loaded.
krohnku
> For Sweden
01/31/2015 at 18:11 | 1 |
Goodwill Auto Auctions and sometime the dealer auctions have public days
N.Guise
> Steven Lang
01/31/2015 at 18:13 | 0 |
what's being described, is exactly what i would want to produce as a car company. a car with a solid frame, that's easily maintained, and modularized for easy upgrades/updates. buy the car at the level you can afford, add the features you want as you can. a good solid design and the car could last 2 - 3 times the normal car.
NeonBlaqk
> Steven Lang
01/31/2015 at 18:20 | 2 |
It can be sooooo hard to sit on your hands though! I'm currently going through the patient waiting game (You there with the lightly optioned Abarth, go get something else, I want your car) and it truly is a great exercise in frustration. I'd love to just skip into a Fiat studio and scoop up whatever demo Abarth they're slinging, but then I'd get stuck with a cabrio or some other stupid option that will decrease my enjoyment of the car. Patience is a virtue and with cars, that can mean chilling out till the correct car comes up at auction, and that can be extremely annoying.
bdinger
> Steven Lang
01/31/2015 at 18:26 | 1 |
When my F-150 hits 250k this is *exactly* what I'm going to do, except probably buy new and keep next to forever (or 250k miles). My list is extremely long:
Accord Coupe EX (4 Cylinder stick)
Jeep Renegade Sport (1.4L, Stick, 4x4)
Scion FR-S
I'll keep the old F-150 for the nasty weather and off road, then drive the heck out of the above. Like you mentioned when I want to upgrade parts I'll do what I'm doing with my F-150 - only the best, and upgrade the stuff to MY needs instead of spending $8k just so I can get the better audio system. When the F-150 hits 250k, which should be about 3 years, it will be 22 years old.
For my wife, I'm looking to do this very thing right now. I'm looking to find her a Honda Pilot that's either a year or two old or preferably a holdover, LX model with 4x4.
Of that list, I want to get one that will last me just as long. Shouldn't be too hard, and yeah, I'll probably end up with the Accord because again - hoping to pick up a holdover and it's the one most likely to get me a good deal (find someone to sell you a FR-S below sticker and I'll show you my shocked face). Jeep and Scion would be fun, but damn my loud old pickup is good for the "fun" part.
Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street.
> Steven Lang
01/31/2015 at 18:26 | 13 |
My Dakota had crank windows, manual door locks, and a manual trans. I put the money towards the V8, HD service package, tow package, and tire and handling package. I miss that truck.
mdensch
> Steven Lang
01/31/2015 at 18:31 | 0 |
Hope he likes it, I sure didn't like mine. If it was four years old in 2005 then it was an '01 XLS. The manual transmission was geared to extract what little power it could from the anemic 2.0-liter I-4 making for annoyingly buzzy, raucous highway driving. I've owned other Escapes that I've liked just fine but I couldn't live with that one.
MK6GTI-now with added Miata
> Steven Lang
01/31/2015 at 18:33 | 3 |
I like whizmos and gizmos on my cars, but there's definitely budgetary benefits to buying the base model and adding features later on.
Unfortunately in the case of my GTI, the HID headlights, sunroof, navigation, and upgraded stereo aren't a cheap upgrade. You can't really add a sunroof later on that's any good, and the HID's have a bunch of sensors and stuff that aren't easily installed by a novice like myself. I'd also have to cut into my A pillar trim to install the Fender tweeters. I bought the base GTI, being on a college student budget, but I think now that I'm graduating and going into a job, my next car will be loaded. Many of the upgraded features aren't plug and play anymore.
KilgoreTrout53
> Steven Lang
01/31/2015 at 18:34 | 2 |
Back around 1990 I was selling my base (very base) 85 Sentra coupe. I listed it as such in the classifieds. A person who looked at the car in the commuter lot called me back and yelled at me because it had vinyl seats and no power accessories. I'm not gonna use the "B" word here, but hey, I didn't say it was "loaded" or a different trim level. Her car had been wrecked and she needed something right away. This was a car with about 30k miles and had absolutely nothing wrong. It had a an AM/FM cassette radio and A/C (period). I'll never forget her calling me, just to yell.
Yeah, avoid base cars. If you think mid-level models are slow movers, roll-down windows and no clickers are the blue-balls of car romance.
Justin Hughes
> Steven Lang
01/31/2015 at 18:51 | 3 |
Been there, done that myself. Why pay extra for options you don't need?
I've also upgraded standard cloth seats to swanky leather ones. They're a good junkyard find. In my case, some friends and I pulled them out of a car we were stripping out to race, and they sat in a garage for years. They didn't even cost me anything.
Another cool trick is if you're upgrading your wheels, figure out what other cars share your car's center bore and bolt pattern. You can expand your options by putting NA Miata alloys on a 90s Corolla, for instance. My girlfriend's Focus has Saab alloys on it that look very nice. It gives the car a custom look, but stock alloys, even from another make/model, aren't nearly as expensive as aftermarket wheels.
For an even more customized look, you can paint, powdercoat, or Plastidip your wheels - the alloys you pick up, or even the ones your car came with. I dipped my BRZ's OEM alloys, and now it looks even more like a Subaru rally car, even though it isn't. The nice thing about dip is it's completely reversible, so I can go back to a stock look if I feel like it.
Fuel_of_Satan
> Steven Lang
01/31/2015 at 18:52 | 2 |
Dude! Stop giving away my trick for cheap daily drivers!
Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing.
> Steven Lang
01/31/2015 at 18:53 | 5 |
I did the same thing when I bought my Mazda5. I had to have the manual transmission, so in the US that means I get the base model. The extra goodies on the other two trim lines weren't worth giving up the manual, so I am building the car I want a little bit at a time. But considering how well equipped a base MZ5 really is, there isn't that much I've had to do. Bluetooth, trip computer, heated seats, 6-disc changer - these items have either been purchased for next to nothing on eBay or Amazon, or implemented via a smartphone. Perhaps I'll upgrade the wheels later, but I've come to appreciate the higher sidewall and lower replacement cost of the stock wheels. And then there are some things, like extra sound deadening, that aren't included on any model regardless of how much you pay.
The best part? The car is mine, a reflection of me and my values, and not a clone of fifty thousand vehicles out there.
4wsprelude
> Steven Lang
01/31/2015 at 18:53 | 4 |
Next time I buy anything close to used or new, I would get 90's optioned. A/C, Power locks and windows and that should be it. Tire packages can suck it because sometimes running 15" or 16" tires can really save you a bunch of money if you are just DD it. I remember my 14" tires for my Prelude only cost 60 bucks per tire. That was under 300 dollars mounted, balanced, and installed. My truck is up for new tires and it's going to be north of 800 dollars with the cheapest tires. Damn those PTMS sensors.
4wsprelude
> jalop1991
01/31/2015 at 18:56 | 1 |
Yep. I loved my Camry and no one can say anything to say it sucks. It was a wonderful car. My sis owns a loaded 3rd gen prius without the nav. It is really nice inside and out. gets fucking great MPG witch she has a long commute to work. Can't say it sucks because she uses it to the max.
Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing.
> For Sweden
01/31/2015 at 18:58 | 6 |
I bought my Mazda5 6MT at a dealer, right off the lot, at the end of the model year. It was the one that they advertised $4K under list price to get people in the door. Nobody wanted it because it had a manual transmission, cloth seats, etc. Nobody wanted it but me, that is - it was just the one I was looking for, and I haven't regretted the purchase for a second. Well, if there was one regret it is that I didn't ask for more of a discount off of their advertised price, but since I got nearly a 20% discount on a new car I guess I really shouldn't complain.
RAGS
> Steven Lang
01/31/2015 at 19:17 | 0 |
Very happy with the 2012 Honda Accord LX with the 2.4 (K24Z2) I bought on Monday. The 13 hp I lose to the 190 HP K24Z3 is purely academic since the extra baker's dozen wouldn't come into play until above 6 grand. Handling and ride are superb for a large front-driver and you already know how fun 3 pedals are. Found the original window sticker and there are ZERO options ordered.
Steven Lang
> Shoop
01/31/2015 at 19:31 | 1 |
Yep! Gotta remember that the next time I get an xB.
Abe Froman
> Steven Lang
01/31/2015 at 19:32 | 2 |
I misread your article title.
C-Rod
> Steven Lang
01/31/2015 at 19:32 | 3 |
My truck is "80s loaded". Good enough for me.
Steven Lang
> 4wsprelude
01/31/2015 at 19:35 | 1 |
I loved one for 12 years. One of the more enduring loves of my life.
Steven Lang
> Texican
01/31/2015 at 19:36 | 1 |
You are the man!
m-b-w loves his SUBAROO
> Steve is equipped with Electronic Fool Injection
01/31/2015 at 19:36 | 4 |
you realize that for cruise control on a base soul, all you need are cruise control buttons, so you could get the buttons from a forte, soul, or rio steering wheel and gain working cruise control.
Steven Lang
> Texican
01/31/2015 at 19:37 | 0 |
You are the man!
Steven Lang
> Bad72AMX
01/31/2015 at 19:40 | 2 |
He's actually around six foot five. I think that was one of the few sport SUVs of that time which was able to check of all of his needs and requirements.
Steven Lang
> DipodomysDeserti
01/31/2015 at 19:43 | 2 |
I once bought a red' 90 Loyale for only $100 as an inop vehicle. Mileage was 90k, and I was exceptionally lucky to find a fuel pump at a nearby junkyard for $20.
It was a perfectly nice daily driver around town. Highways it didn't like as much.
I do remember one other unique characteristic. It's the only car of our era that has more right angles than a Volvo 240.
Steven Lang
> 44444444444
01/31/2015 at 19:46 | 2 |
I made a small fortune with Volvos that had bad ETMs from 03' thru around 07'.
The Volvo S70 and V70 owners back then were among the most dealer maintenance oriented folks you could imagine. A lot of those cars only required a software update and a mild detail.
Steven Lang
> Whitesmoke
01/31/2015 at 19:48 | 0 |
Hiram
Steven Lang
> E39FTW
01/31/2015 at 19:49 | 0 |
That's awesome! You would be surprised how much a Colorado like yours sells for right now.
Steven Lang
> Abe Froman
01/31/2015 at 19:51 | 1 |
I was tempted. But in my case, I would truly be arrested for indecent exposure.
Dream Theater of the Absurd
> jalop1991
01/31/2015 at 20:11 | 0 |
*stands up* Hi, my name is Scot, and I'm a jalopaholic.
bdsimmons2
> Steven Lang
01/31/2015 at 20:12 | 0 |
My last truck was an '03 Silverado. It was an LS, but had obviously been optioned with LED/Signal/Dimming side mirrors, compass/temp rearview, bose sound system, fog lights, and dual zone temp control. Seriously it was an LT without the leather seats only. At some point, I figured out that the early Delphi Navigation systems were plug and play with the stereo in this thing, so I swapped that in and took it to the dealer for the $20 reprogramming to enable the thing. The shop guys all came out and wanted to meet me "Dude I've never seen Nav without leather seats" I eventually swapped in the leather seats, put fender flares on it and drove it to 185k. I was starting to become suspect of the transmission and needed something with more than an extended cab, so I ended up selling it for $14k, which I was more than impressed with.
Gripevo1
> Steven Lang
01/31/2015 at 20:18 | 0 |
When i bought my Abarth, i picked the base spec one (16in wheels, no leather or sunroof). Not only did the car have way more "luxury" features than my previous car (03 Evo 8), but i ended up getting nearly 4 grand off msrp because most people wanted the loaded ones. Now im looking at possibly selling it, and considering that the fully loaded ones that were $6k + more new than mine are selling for the same price, im feeling good about my decision. That being said, there are certain things worth springing for in the begining (like the higher hp engine instead of upgrading a lower hp one).
Dream Theater of the Absurd
> C-Rod
01/31/2015 at 20:19 | 0 |
I'd say my Miata is probably '30s loaded. It dates back to when you could get a base package with manual mirrors, no A/C, manual steering and wind-up windows. All it has is a stereo (aftermarket) and floor mats.
sloshy
> Steven Lang
01/31/2015 at 20:28 | 0 |
Now this is all true unless the lower spec car (base model) has a truly shitty and anemic engine and a step up (maybe an SE) has the fun reliable engine.
TeeJayHoward
> ThrowsLikeAGirl
01/31/2015 at 20:29 | 0 |
Note to any who don't know: This is a great example of how NOT to install sound deadening materials. This is the bottom layer of a three-layer system, and you should use about 75% less than seen here. The one and ONLY purpose of this material is to stop vibrating metal. Not to reduce noise. To stop vibrations. On top of this, you add a separating layer, and then a true sound deadener - typically mass-loaded vinyl.
Jon
> MTY19855
01/31/2015 at 20:35 | 0 |
and pay cash and save thousands or put that money towards a much better car. i will never fiance anything other then a mortgage, in fact a never renewed my credit card and haven't been in debt since.
Impersonal Jesus
> LeadfootYT
01/31/2015 at 20:45 | 0 |
I put Dynamat in my doors, with barely perceptible results. I also found that my car already has sound deadening in the floor from the factory.
Well, apparently I (and many others) have been doing it all wrong: http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/
More of a DIY non-vendor point of view: http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/soundproo… He also talks about the difference in sound deadening used in cheaper and more expensive vehicles from the same manufacturer.
One difference? Ensolite. http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/member-r…
Here's a forum thread by a guy who followed the same basic principles, but used less expensive materials (including stuff from Home Depot) to do it on the cheap: http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/showthr…
This guy installed sound deadening in his Mazdaspeed6: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/build-lo…
A seller of Dynamat and competing products, including liquids that can be applied: http://sounddeadener.com/
Another seller: http://www.raamaudio.com/
Me, I found that the bulk of the noise I was hearing was due to the window seals on the inner side of the door not sealing correctly. Window fully closed; road (but no wind) noise. Window slightly lowered, but still sealing; less noise. I fixed this by carefully bending the metal where the seals mount and it is now much quieter.
I may try some of the stuff mentioned here at a later date.
FancyTech
> Steven Lang
01/31/2015 at 20:52 | 2 |
Whenever I sell a "loaded 90s" car the person almost always drives another loaded 90s car and pays cash. No dealing with waiting for financing to come through and trust me the worse the credit score the longer it takes to find a lender. So I have a deposit on a car that others are calling me about but I have to wait it out for a day or sometimes 2... Then they end up taking the car at 29% with a 7 year term with 4k down.. They could have bought a 4k-5k car cash and rebuilt their credit.
Minivans are also good money makers specifically GM/Chrysler vans. You can get ex fleet ones for next to nothing at the auction since they will most likely have lettering on the side. Spend half the day cleaning it off and sell it to a family needing cheap transport, there is always a family needing cheap transport. I remember even getting a few Uplanders with blown trans labeled as "Inop" , bought them, cleaned them up and took them into GM where they replaced the transmissions under the 5/160k warranty.. Or Chrysler's with "Inop no brakes" rear calipers leaking.. Ex rental is still pricey but Ex fleet is where it's at, you get the "loaded 90s" specials that have been somewhat taken care of and they'll go for cheap because the fleet wants them gone. Even better as I said if they are "inop" and you can fix them yourself. You have to also know the warranty period of the car, possibly extended warranties.
Personally I like buying "older" luxury cars. Great value for the money if you can fix them yourself.. Buy a Range Rover Sport with broken air suspension, install conventional coil springs/struts with a bypass for 800-1000$, drive for a couple months and sell.
Ad_absurdum_per_aspera
> Arizona Lefty
01/31/2015 at 20:53 | 0 |
Have you had good luck with those? (And how long did you keep them, and what level of rentals were they to begin with?) After long experience with both rental and motor-pool cars, I just assume they may have gone to auction at 25-30k but those are dog miles — is there some secret to finding a good one?
DMCVegas
> Steven Lang
01/31/2015 at 20:54 | 20 |
Thank you so much! This is what I've always loved doing with my own cars too, and always try to advise to people as well.
Back in 2010 we bought a used 2007 F150. It was the perfect model I had been searching for. Power everything, cruise control, fog lights, rubber floors instead of seats, and 4wd. It even had the bonus of being a stepside (or as Ford refers to is, "Flareside"). I've always preferred simple interiors that I can customize myself as I see fit, but cars and trucks like that aren't easy to come by in Vegas. It was an STX model though, which is usually a problem for most people. Usually it means the stripped-down F150 with the V6 and stick shift. Not this one. Since it's a 4x4 it came with an automatic transmission, shift on the fly 4wd, and was a V8 complete with the XLT towing package. It even still had the factory wiring adaptor for a trailer brake in the center console, and only 24K miles on the clock with a factory warranty.
I spotted the truck online and the wife and I went to the dealership the next day. When I described the truck I was looking for, the salesman's eyes lit up and he brought us right over to it. Test drive went great, and the numbers worked out to everyone's satisfaction. We got a few hundred over bluebook on the Blazer we traded in, and over $8,000 OFF the original asking price the dealer had. And then we found out why: The dealer had been sitting on this truck for months. We bought it the last week of August, and they had been sitting on it since early April that year. Then we pulled up the Carfax later on and found that it had been shifting between auctions for almost a year in California and Nevada until it arrived at the dealership, and then spent almost another 5 months until we came along. Between the stigman of being an "STX" and gas prices, it was doomed to practically never sell. Once the deal was complete, the salesman confided all this and that they had been trying to unload this truck for sometime, but no one wanted it. Within the next couple of weeks it would have gone back to auction again for someone else to deal with.
We've still got the truck of course, and it runs just as well as ever. A trip to the junkyard for some skid plates and a limited slip differential and I've damn-near functionally, and cheaply, converted an STX into a FX4 for a fraction of the price. The only exception being towing capacity, but that's just because of the engine type I opted for. I huge win all the way around. And even then, the options to improve the truck still aren't complete.
Chaos-cascade
> Steven Lang
01/31/2015 at 20:56 | 0 |
looks cracked and torn to me.
Steven Lang
> DMCVegas
01/31/2015 at 21:03 | 2 |
I would recommend this post twice if I could. A fantastic story from a fantastic Jalopnik member.
Steven Lang
> Chaos-cascade
01/31/2015 at 21:05 | 3 |
Nine years later... you're right. He got them in early 06'.
Bearded Bastard
> Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street.
01/31/2015 at 21:13 | 15 |
most common words ever said about a dakota "I miss that truck"
thejahbro
> bdinger
01/31/2015 at 21:15 | 0 |
you might be able to buy a BRZ below sticker price
44444444444
> Steven Lang
01/31/2015 at 21:18 | 1 |
And everything with an 99-01 car could be fixed with a $80 ETM off ebay and maybe an ABS module board. The 01+ one ETMs last so much longer, like 250k miles. Aside from the fact that the head gasket, and angle gear (in the AWD cars) go at 180k there are few faults with the P80 Volvos. I will never buy an 01-03 Volvo though.
Eightycc
> For Sweden
01/31/2015 at 21:27 | 0 |
Craigslist. Autotrader etc.
DipodomysDeserti
> Steven Lang
01/31/2015 at 21:43 | 2 |
I bought mine as a desert car to go out hiking and backpacking. 4wd and a manual. I bought it running from the original owner for $800. It's been rock solid for the year I've had it. The interior is cherry and the thing rides great. Great hooning vehicle for when it gets muddy. The 4wd is actually pretty solid.
blah
> Steven Lang
01/31/2015 at 21:44 | 2 |
Yes and no on this one for me. I litterally built my first real car from the unibody up. Including building up my own engine. When it came to buying my truck. I opted for an FX4 F150 from its original owner. It needed tires (20s) lower ball joints, rear brakes and spark plugs. It only had 67k on it and I snaged it for less than 10k. There is no way i could have grabbed a truck like this with premium package (leather, power everything, sunroof, Lear cap, bed rug,) The overall great condition it was in with the owner not wanting to deal with replacing the tires before winter allowed me to get a truck that would have been the same cost of a STX. Because I do my own work and get good deals on parts thru work and wasn't afraid to buy private, I was able to score a better deal on it than anywhere else. Point is, buy used, well optioned vehicles from owners that know their first round of costly maintenance is around the corner. Do the work yourself so you know that its done, when it was done and that its done right. You can't go wrong with that.
shfd739
> Steven Lang
01/31/2015 at 22:06 | 3 |
Id like to think we did something like you describe this earlier this year.
We had an '08 Mazda CX-7 Grand Touring that we replaced with an '03 Chevy Trailblazer EXT from my inlaws. The Mazda had been an ok car but it was nearing 100k miles with a turbo Mazda motor and I had a feeling it could become an expensive car quickly.
My inlaws that live out of state decided to keep my wife's grandmothers Trailblazer after it had passed around the family for a year after she passed away and they were going to leave it at our house. We had a baby on the way and wanted a larger vehicle. We wound up getting a good price for the Mazda off a Craigslist sale and bought the Trailblazer leaving a nice amount of leftover money that was stashed in savings.
Going from a turbo, loaded up Mazda to a Trailblazer EXT V8 was a great decision.The Trailblazer needed a little maintenance caught up that I did myself(and the inlaws paid for) and its been a great road trip and tow vehicle for our camper. The v8 has also costed less to operate than the Mazda's turbo motor- and its an LS motor so if anything does happen its a common, simple to repair motor unlike the Mazda's MZR motor.
TheGreenBuilding
> Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street.
01/31/2015 at 22:11 | 1 |
I had a doll of a 95, ran like a dream (had shit aweful mid 90s Chrysler paint, but that's a different story). 5.2L V8 mated to a five speed. A lady turned about 75 feet in front of me when I was doing 45 down a highway and of course I creamed her. The front support got a little kinked, insurance would only total it. I was heartbroken.
TheVaneTruther
> Arizona Lefty
01/31/2015 at 22:12 | 1 |
This. I work for Hertz, I'd recommend Mazda & VW in the rental resale market. Mazda's for the extended warranty, which some people don't realize still applies after being a fleet vehicle. VW's for the combo of service records & warranty. VW/MBZ/BMW fleet vehicles aren't serviced in-house, they're vended & its easier to get accurate service records.
CakeWithSoda
> Steven Lang
01/31/2015 at 22:14 | 2 |
I'd agree but only for those who are very budget conscious. It's definitely not plug n play for newer European cars though. Let's say you want to upgrade to Logic 7 on a newer 3 series. That means you need new door cards, amps in the rear trunk, and not to mention coding. Don't even get started with the USB armrest retrofit that can cost upwards of $1000...
BOB JACOBSON
> For Sweden
01/31/2015 at 22:20 | 1 |
you can find private buyers with them. Look for the guy or girl with the shiney new car in the driveway that got low balled by the dealer on the trade and now just need to get rid of the thing.
Steven Lang
> CakeWithSoda
01/31/2015 at 22:23 | 1 |
It has more to do with continually improving a vehicle that you want to enjoy, and endure.
But I do agree with you that modern European luxury cars tend to be an absolute bastard to deal with if you want to play around with the wires.
I have an old saying when it comes to these things. "The fewer the wires. The better the mod."
This is true in oh so many ways!
haier2
> The World of Vee
01/31/2015 at 22:24 | 0 |
Holy cow! An ELR driver! How do you like it? I've still only seen one and it was from a distance.
haier2
> Steven Lang
01/31/2015 at 22:27 | 1 |
Hiram is as close to me as anyone I've ever heard of on here. Shouts from Lost Mountain!
CakeWithSoda
> Steven Lang
01/31/2015 at 23:00 | 1 |
Yup, I wonder how this idea will fare in future especially with cars becoming a lot more complicated with all the gadgets and gizmos.